Trump tax break for the super-rich and big corporations and tax increase for the poor
by BoringApe - 11-17-2018, 12:35 PM
#1
Why do people, especially poor people, vote against their own interests? America desperately needs to invest in stuff like education and infrastructure, but Trump cuts taxes on the rich and raises them for the poor. But the poor people who watch Faux News don't realise that they will have to pay for those tax cuts...


"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424
#2
It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.
#3
(11-17-2018, 05:25 PM)nolife Wrote: It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.

You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424
#4
(11-17-2018, 11:52 PM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:25 PM)nolife Wrote: It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.

You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424

So called stagnation is not the same as crumbling, just the rate of increase is not increasing which is fine. Even if what you have said is true.

Socialism is shit, Libertarianism is better.
#5
(11-17-2018, 11:56 PM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:52 PM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:25 PM)nolife Wrote: It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.

You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424

So called stagnation is not the same as crumbling, just the rate of increase is not increasing which is fine. Even if what you have said is true.

Socialism is shit, Libertarianism is better.

But America isn't stagnating, it is crumbling. It needs to invest heavily in (for example) education and infrastructure but it has no money. The country is divided, has incompetent leaders and the problems we see today will have its effects on future generations.

I believe the USA should start a democracy because their current two-party system is just as bad as a one-party system and not democratic at all.
#6
(11-18-2018, 12:16 AM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:56 PM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:52 PM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:25 PM)nolife Wrote: It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.

You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424

So called stagnation is not the same as crumbling, just the rate of increase is not increasing which is fine. Even if what you have said is true.

Socialism is shit, Libertarianism is better.

But America isn't stagnating, it is crumbling. It needs to invest heavily in (for example) education and infrastructure but it has no money. The country is divided, has incompetent leaders and the problems we see today will have its effects on future generations.

I believe the USA should start a democracy because their current two-party system is just as bad as a one-party system and not democratic at all.

Sorry, from your statistics it seemed you were saying it was stagnating. Education and infrastructure are pretty well funded, the only thing I could see happening is to tax the upper class more and the argument that Republicans use is "Bbbbut they'll just leave!!11" is dumb, increasing the taxes by a couple percent for the wealthy would help. I agree but I think your idea of the future generations being effected by the current state is a bit over the top.

The USA is at it's current state is a constitutional republic and yes, it has democratic elections every 4 years for the president and electoral college and 2 years for the local representative. The question is, should the USA adopt the FPTP system the UK has if they were to adopt a democracy like you said? If so, the UK system is the exact same and you would see the same problem. The USA is also huge compared to the UK and most other countries with more representative democratic systems and the house of representatives and others would be filled with tons of parties that all disagreed with each other and could not vote accurately on issues.
#7
(11-18-2018, 12:26 AM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-18-2018, 12:16 AM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:56 PM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:52 PM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:25 PM)nolife Wrote: It's quite simple:
The US is not a socialist state, they are a mild socialist mostly capitalist state, that's why they do so much better than any other country ever.

Many poor know that they need jobs to survive or get out of their poor state, they know that you get jobs by giving people the financial freedom to employ.
The tax cuts have not been for the rich, that's left-wing fakenews propaganda. The tax cuts affect middle income groups strongly.

Trumps premise was "Make America Great again", that targeted to combat the decline of the US power due to liberal politics in recent decades.
And from what we can see it works.

You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424

So called stagnation is not the same as crumbling, just the rate of increase is not increasing which is fine. Even if what you have said is true.

Socialism is shit, Libertarianism is better.

But America isn't stagnating, it is crumbling. It needs to invest heavily in (for example) education and infrastructure but it has no money. The country is divided, has incompetent leaders and the problems we see today will have its effects on future generations.

I believe the USA should start a democracy because their current two-party system is just as bad as a one-party system and not democratic at all.

Sorry, from your statistics it seemed you were saying it was stagnating. Education and infrastructure are pretty well funded, the only thing I could see happening is to tax the upper class more and the argument that Republicans use is "Bbbbut they'll just leave!!11" is dumb, increasing the taxes by a couple percent for the wealthy would help. I agree but I think your idea of the future generations being effected by the current state is a bit over the top.

The USA is at it's current state is a constitutional republic and yes, it has democratic elections every 4 years for the president and electoral college and 2 years for the local representative. The question is, should the USA adopt the FPTP system the UK has if they were to adopt a democracy like you said? If so, the UK system is the exact same and you would see the same problem. The USA is also huge compared to the UK and most other countries with more representative democratic systems and the house of representatives and others would be filled with tons of parties that all disagreed with each other and could not vote accurately on issues.

You wrote: "Education and infrastructure are pretty well funded" so I must remind you we are talking about the USA, not the UK. Trump wants to spend 1.7 trillion on fixing the infrastructure so he is probably aware of the fact there is a problem with the US infrastructure. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t...SKBN1FD312

Dominos pizzas is fixing potholes because the US government does not... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articl...inous-sign

*affected

Trump has just slashed taxes for the super rich and for big corporations, so that is the opposite of what you wanted. Poor and middleclass people will have to pay for that...

The USA does not have a real democracy. It has a 2-party system, which is similar to China's 1-party system, but with one more party. There are no alternatives. The country is divided and people truly hate each other. Their political system is more like a religion in the sense that if you are born in a republican household you get so brainwashed with hatred for "libtards" that you are very unlikely to go to the dems (the other way around is a bit easier, but not very).

In my country there are a fuckton of political parties and none of them have a majority so they have to form coalitions. That is what a true democracy looks like; many different parties who may not agree on all points but are forced to work together and make compromises.
#8
(11-18-2018, 12:34 AM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-18-2018, 12:26 AM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-18-2018, 12:16 AM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:56 PM)KaBob Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 11:52 PM)BoringApe Wrote: You don't know what socialist means.
The US is not doing "so much better than any other country ever"; it is crumbling
That "fakenews propaganda" is the shit you believe in.
Trump has done a lot of damage in the short time he has been president.

"Non-partisan analysts say the greatest beneficiaries of the package will be the super-wealthy, multinational corporations and the commercial property industry.

In the immediate future, the plan will see the vast majority of taxpayers having lower tax bills, but those cuts expire in 2025.

By 2027, the Tax Policy Center estimates the overall change would be negligible.

And 53% of taxpayers would face higher bills, many of them in the lower income brackets."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42429424

So called stagnation is not the same as crumbling, just the rate of increase is not increasing which is fine. Even if what you have said is true.

Socialism is shit, Libertarianism is better.

But America isn't stagnating, it is crumbling. It needs to invest heavily in (for example) education and infrastructure but it has no money. The country is divided, has incompetent leaders and the problems we see today will have its effects on future generations.

I believe the USA should start a democracy because their current two-party system is just as bad as a one-party system and not democratic at all.

Sorry, from your statistics it seemed you were saying it was stagnating. Education and infrastructure are pretty well funded, the only thing I could see happening is to tax the upper class more and the argument that Republicans use is "Bbbbut they'll just leave!!11" is dumb, increasing the taxes by a couple percent for the wealthy would help. I agree but I think your idea of the future generations being effected by the current state is a bit over the top.

The USA is at it's current state is a constitutional republic and yes, it has democratic elections every 4 years for the president and electoral college and 2 years for the local representative. The question is, should the USA adopt the FPTP system the UK has if they were to adopt a democracy like you said? If so, the UK system is the exact same and you would see the same problem. The USA is also huge compared to the UK and most other countries with more representative democratic systems and the house of representatives and others would be filled with tons of parties that all disagreed with each other and could not vote accurately on issues.

You wrote: "Education and infrastructure are pretty well funded" so I must remind you we are talking about the USA, not the UK. Trump wants to spend 1.7 trillion on fixing the infrastructure so he is probably aware of the fact there is a problem with the US infrastructure. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t...SKBN1FD312

Dominos pizzas is fixing potholes because the US government does not... https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articl...inous-sign

*affected

Trump has just slashed taxes for the super rich and for big corporations, so that is the opposite of what you wanted. Poor and middleclass people will have to pay for that...

The USA does not have a real democracy. It has a 2-party system, which is similar to China's 1-party system, but with one more party. There are no alternatives. The country is divided and people truly hate each other. Their political system is more like a religion in the sense that if you are born in a republican household you get so brainwashed with hatred for "libtards" that you are very unlikely to go to the dems (the other way around is a bit easier, but not very).

In my country there are a fuckton of political parties and none of them have a majority so they have to form coalitions. That is what a true democracy looks like; many different parties who may not agree on all points but are forced to work together and make compromises.

So Trump is doing something for the Infrastructure which is against what you said? Yeah, he is doing the opposite of what I want but I can't always get what I want from a politician and I do not necessarily support Trump. I still prefer him over democrats.

Same with me, there are plenty of parties but we still have a system that works for us and that would not be compatiable with the size of the US in which, I say again, you need a majority to pass a law so the same party will vote a certain way meaning a majority, or not depending on the law/bill, can be passed.
#9
(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: So Trump is doing something for the Infrastructure which is against what you said? 

How is that against what I said? I said the US needs to invest in infrastructure and people who work for Trump created a plan to invest a fuckton of money in it because they also think America needs to invest money in its infrastructure.

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: Yeah, he is doing the opposite of what I want but I can't always get what I want from a politician and I do not necessarily support Trump. I still prefer him over democrats.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russia...at-shirts/

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: Same with me, there are plenty of parties but we still have a system that works for us

No, the American people do not have a system that works for them, that is one of the reasons America is crumbling. America is doing really badly.

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: that would not be compatiable with the size of the US in which, I say again, you need a majority to pass a law so the same party will vote a certain way meaning a majority, or not depending on the law/bill, can be passed.

I think you are referring to a multiparty system, right? A multiparty system would work for the US, in much the same way a the two-party system does, but with more parties and more choice (so it will be better).
The two-party system is not democratic at all. Of course the electoral college and gerrymandering and shit like that are terrible for a democracy.
#10
(11-18-2018, 01:02 AM)BoringApe Wrote:
(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: So Trump is doing something for the Infrastructure which is against what you said? 

How is that against what I said? I said the US needs to invest in infrastructure and people who work for Trump created a plan to invest a fuckton of money in it because they also think America needs to invest money in its infrastructure.

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: Yeah, he is doing the opposite of what I want but I can't always get what I want from a politician and I do not necessarily support Trump. I still prefer him over democrats.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russia...at-shirts/

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: Same with me, there are plenty of parties but we still have a system that works for us

No, the American people do not have a system that works for them, that is one of the reasons America is crumbling. America is doing really badly.

(11-18-2018, 12:55 AM)KaBob Wrote: that would not be compatiable with the size of the US in which, I say again, you need a majority to pass a law so the same party will vote a certain way meaning a majority, or not depending on the law/bill, can be passed.

I think you are referring to a multiparty system, right? A multiparty system would work for the US, in much the same way a the two-party system does, but with more parties and more choice (so it will be better).
The two-party system is not democratic at all. Of course the electoral college and gerrymandering and shit like that are terrible for a democracy.

I am from the UK, as I tried to point out my system (UK system) works for us. The US system is multi-party system just the other parties do not get enough votes to be represented in nationwide elections. Gary Johnson ran for president alongside Hillary and Trump but did not get enough support to get any seats or any electoral college votes.

I did not vote in America but I would rather have trump than hillary, i do not see any evidence of russian interference and democrats were the ones saying the elections were unhackable etc. before the election. They changed their tune once Trump won.

America needs infrastructure and Trump is financing that so good on Trump.
#11
(11-18-2018, 11:21 AM)KaBob Wrote: I am from the UK, as I tried to point out my system (UK system) works for us. The US system is multi-party system just the other parties do not get enough votes to be represented in nationwide elections. Gary Johnson ran for president alongside Hillary and Trump but did not get enough support to get any seats or any electoral college votes.

Voting for a third party in America is a waste of a vote. There are only 2 options.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxovpYmbbIM

(11-18-2018, 11:21 AM)KaBob Wrote: I did not vote in America but I would rather have trump than hillary, i do not see any evidence of russian interference and democrats were the ones saying the elections were unhackable etc. before the election. They changed their tune once Trump won.

America needs infrastructure and Trump is financing that so good on Trump.

"I would rather have trump than hillary" -- so you haven't seen the damage caused by trump? Heck, I would prefer a slightly bruised banana over both of them. But Trump is worse than Hillary, pretty much everyone who is not stupid/a far-right extremist agrees on that.

"i do not see any evidence of russian interference" -- maybe not all evidence is available to you, and maybe you haven't bothered to educate yourself on the subject.

"democrats were the ones saying the elections were unhackable" -- who said that? when and why? Thats a silly thing to say.

"America needs infrastructure and Trump is financing that so good on Trump." Any president wouldve invested in infrastructure, the country desperately needs that. And Trumps taxcuts for big corporations and the ultra rich ensure that the lower- and middleclass americans are the ones who have to pay...
#12
@KaBob:
It's not possible to discuss with Ape, he's not able to understand arguments. I've tried before quite a few times. It's without doubt a waste of time.
Aside that he's far left leaning, close to communism in his believes which makes it quite difficult as worlds clash with anyone who's not trying to "heal the world" by redistributing the income of " rich zionists" and "priviledged white colonialists" :>>>

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