Poll: Do you support Brexit?
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Yes

4 66.67%
No

2 33.33%
Total 6 vote(s) 100%
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Brexit
#13
(11-17-2018, 08:24 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-17-2018, 05:12 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-17-2018, 12:36 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-17-2018, 12:30 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-16-2018, 11:44 PM)BoringApe Wrote:  [quote="Nombre" pid='412722' dateline='1542406719']
Opinion on Brexit? @BoringApe

Well, they found the worst possible solution for all sides involved.

No one can be happy with the deal they made.
Leaving the EU makes the UK weaker than it currently is. Why are you in favor of it??? Did you spend a lot of time doing research or do you simply feel vague hatred towards the EU based on propaganda in tabloids?

I like Brexit because it makes the U.K. sovereign in terms of immigration. The EU's weak immigration law prevents the U.K. from denying anyone from an EU country to enter. Also, the country contributes a lot to the EU's budget, when it could save a lot just being independent. The country should not be subject to the jurisdiction of people from other countries; that's absurd.

So basically all three of them are wrong.

I read up on the Brexit deal some. I don't see how leaving the EU won't make the U.K. sovereign in terms of immigration. The EU can't just force immigrants into the U.K., if they are an independent nation. Also, I looked at some numbers and saw that Brexit could save the U.K. some money. The U.K. contributes 13.1 billion pounds to the EU while receiving 4.5 billion pounds from the EU, making the net contribution 8.6 billion pounds. TheSun.co.uk reports that Brexit would cost the U.K. 2.59 billion pounds a year for decades, but Brexit would cost the EU bloc around 194.7 billion pounds if there isn't a trade deal, so making trade hard with the U.K. is not the best direction for the EU to go in considering that Brexit hurts the EU more than it hurts the U.K.

My big thing with Brexit is immigration, though. The U.K. should have control over who has permission to enter.
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#14
@Nombre


https://www.businessinsider.nl/immigrati...=true&r=UK

EU countries are currently collaborating with the UK to stop illegal immigrants that are heading to the UK. Imagine if they just say: ok, leave the EU, go to the UK instead!

Half of the UK trade is directly with the EU, and another 12% is through EU preferential trade deals. The EU can totally fuck the UK up if they use protectionism. It won't, but it could. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

The Sun is not a reliable source of information you absolute plonker. It is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is pro-Brexit. It is sad that your opinion is formed by spindoctors who work for a billionaire... and you don't even know it!

Do you not know about the Hillsborough disaster? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

Don't Buy The Sun!

http://www.anfieldroad.com/dont-buy-the-sun/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho...20391.html
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#15
(11-17-2018, 08:24 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  So basically all three of them are wrong.

* Brexit will not make the UK sovereign in terms of immigration. In fact, the French people who stop immigrants heading to the UK can simply stop collaborating with the UK if they want to. Which means that the people who lived in the jungle of Calais can get kicked out of the EU; straight into the UK!

* Brexit does not mean the UK will save a lot of money (in fact it will cost a lot of money). Protectionism guarantees that the EU can make the UK pay a LOT for Brexit. The UK will lose preferential trade deals and it will stop having those opportunities in the future. Buying stuff from the UK, and selling stuff to the UK will be far more expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

* Brexit does not mean the UK will no longer will be subject to jurisdiction of people from other countries, in reality it will still have to follow EU law but it won't be able to help write those laws.

But if you read a summary of the actual deal they reached you would know all this already....


You sir are wrong.

- The people living in the Calais Jungle can not be kicked out of the EU straight into the UK by France. This would be illegal and would not happen, the immigrants can go to Britain illegally when we are in the EU or not but is harder to do so legally when we leave the EU as they cannot claim asylum. It is in the EU Constitution that you must take in a certain amount of refugees that we would no longer have to abide to outside of the EU.

- The EU can't make the UK pay for anything, regardless of "Protectionism" which is more of an ideology rather than a policy they would take. We could do the same against them. We currently don't have a trade deal with the US, China or Australia among others which we would desire and all three countries have said they will give us a trade deal once we leave the EU. Buying stuff from the UK will be no more expensive than it is now if there are no tariffs which is what happens in a free trade deal which we can negotiate as easy as in the EU which requires every single member to agree on that trade deal for it to be passed which can be a process that can take months inside of the EU. One nation without a political union of other countries is easier to negotiate no matter how big that union is or whatever other garbage they tell you.

- Brexit itself does not mean we have EU laws as the EU will have no power to make us enforce them as we will not be part of the EU. We don't get to help the write the laws inside of the EU, an unelected group does this and our elected (only 30% turnout in European elections) MEPs vote on it with all the other countries in the EU.
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#16
(11-18-2018, 12:19 AM)KaBob Wrote:  
(11-17-2018, 08:24 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  So basically all three of them are wrong.

* Brexit will not make the UK sovereign in terms of immigration. In fact, the French people who stop immigrants heading to the UK can simply stop collaborating with the UK if they want to. Which means that the people who lived in the jungle of Calais can get kicked out of the EU; straight into the UK!

* Brexit does not mean the UK will save a lot of money (in fact it will cost a lot of money). Protectionism guarantees that the EU can make the UK pay a LOT for Brexit. The UK will lose preferential trade deals and it will stop having those opportunities in the future. Buying stuff from the UK, and selling stuff to the UK will be far more expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

* Brexit does not mean the UK will no longer will be subject to jurisdiction of people from other countries, in reality it will still have to follow EU law but it won't be able to help write those laws.

But if you read a summary of the actual deal they reached you would know all this already....


You sir are wrong.

- The people living in the Calais Jungle can not be kicked out of the EU straight into the UK by France. This would be illegal and would not happen, the immigrants can go to Britain illegally when we are in the EU or not but is harder to do so legally when we leave the EU as they cannot claim asylum. It is in the EU Constitution that you must take in a certain amount of refugees that we would no longer have to abide to outside of the EU.

- The EU can't make the UK pay for anything, regardless of "Protectionism" which is more of an ideology rather than a policy they would take. We could do the same against them. We currently don't have a trade deal with the US, China or Australia among others which we would desire and all three countries have said they will give us a trade deal once we leave the EU. Buying stuff from the UK will be no more expensive than it is now if there are no tariffs which is what happens in a free trade deal which we can negotiate as easy as in the EU which requires every single member to agree on that trade deal for it to be passed which can be a process that can take months inside of the EU. One nation without a political union of other countries is easier to negotiate no matter how big that union is or whatever other garbage they tell you.

- Brexit itself does not mean we have EU laws as the EU will have no power to make us enforce them as we will not be part of the EU. We don't get to help the write the laws inside of the EU, an unelected group does this and our elected (only 30% turnout in European elections) MEPs vote on it with all the other countries in the EU.


- France is spending a fuckton of money to prevent immigrants travelling to the UK. After a Brexit they may have other priorities. The small amount of people that are let in the country due to EU laws about refugees are a tiny amount compared to all immigrants to the UK https://www.businessinsider.nl/immigrati...=true&r=UK

- Protectionism is the reason the EU was founded. It's all about money, baby. The EU does not need the UK, the UK does need the EU.  The UK will lose preferential trade deals and it will stop having those opportunities in the future. Buying stuff from the UK, and selling stuff to the UK will be far more expensive. Half of the UK trade is directly with the EU, and another 12% is through EU preferential trade deals.

- The UK will still have to follow EU laws because otherwise it cannot export stuff to the EU. The people in the UK will be really happy once they realize they still have to follow the EU laws (e.g. because the products made in the UK cannot be sold in the EU if they do not comply with EU law) but no longer have the right to help write those laws.
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#17
Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.
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#18
(11-18-2018, 02:49 AM)Nombre Wrote:  Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.

France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.
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#19
(11-18-2018, 02:52 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:49 AM)Nombre Wrote:  Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.

France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.

What about the U.K. defending their own borders?
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#20
(11-18-2018, 04:40 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:52 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:49 AM)Nombre Wrote:  Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.

France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.

What about the U.K. defending their own borders?

Well, I live in NL and we aren't planning an invasion of the UK. I can also vouch for the people from Belgium (all 6 million of them), they will never invade the UK. France is too arrogant to invade the UK; French people think its a shithole.

So all you need to worry about is the Germans. That means you don't need to defend the UK's borders, but the Dutch border to the east.

Or do you think the Troubles will start again? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre...16946.html

That potential problem is caused by Brexit, not solved by it.
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#21
(11-18-2018, 04:46 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:40 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:52 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:49 AM)Nombre Wrote:  Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.

France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.

What about the U.K. defending their own borders?

Well, I live in NL and we aren't planning an invasion of the UK. I can also vouch for the people from Belgium (all 6 million of them), they will never invade the UK. France is too arrogant to invade the UK; French people think its a shithole.

So all you need to worry about is the Germans. That means you don't need to defend the UK's borders, but the Dutch border to the east.

Or do you think the Troubles will start again? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre...16946.html

That potential problem is caused by Brexit, not solved by it.

What I meant was borders in terms of immigration, not military defense (which I think is still necessary). The French can't send all of the Muslim immigrants into the U.K. because they do not want them. With Brexit, the U.K. is not required to take in everyone from other EU countries.
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#22
(11-18-2018, 09:44 PM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:46 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:40 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:52 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:49 AM)Nombre Wrote:  Imagine a stranger comes to your house. You can't say, "No. Go to my neighbor's house." Similarly, France can't just put people they don't want in the U.K. They will not be allowed into the country.

France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.

What about the U.K. defending their own borders?

Well, I live in NL and we aren't planning an invasion of the UK. I can also vouch for the people from Belgium (all 6 million of them), they will never invade the UK. France is too arrogant to invade the UK; French people think its a shithole.

So all you need to worry about is the Germans. That means you don't need to defend the UK's borders, but the Dutch border to the east.

Or do you think the Troubles will start again? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre...16946.html

That potential problem is caused by Brexit, not solved by it.

What I meant was borders in terms of immigration, not military defense (which I think is still necessary). The French can't send all of the Muslim immigrants into the U.K. because they do not want them. With Brexit, the U.K. is not required to take in everyone from other EU countries.

Ehm, you were talking about defending the border IIRC, so it is a logical assumption that you mean defending it from invading armies; immigrants (illegal or not) rarely redraw the borders of the countries they move to (Alexander the Great is the exception, not the rule).

If you read the article I linked to it explains why Brexit may be the cause of MORE immigration to the UK, instead of reducing it.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/immigrati...=true&r=UK

Maybe the French politicians will decide that they wanna spend less money on guarding the UK border.
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#23
(11-19-2018, 01:10 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 09:44 PM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:46 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:40 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 02:52 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  France is spending a fuckton of money to make sure that people don't go to the UK from France. After Brexit the France politicians can decide they don't wanna spend so much money on that.

What about the U.K. defending their own borders?

Well, I live in NL and we aren't planning an invasion of the UK. I can also vouch for the people from Belgium (all 6 million of them), they will never invade the UK. France is too arrogant to invade the UK; French people think its a shithole.

So all you need to worry about is the Germans. That means you don't need to defend the UK's borders, but the Dutch border to the east.

Or do you think the Troubles will start again? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre...16946.html

That potential problem is caused by Brexit, not solved by it.

What I meant was borders in terms of immigration, not military defense (which I think is still necessary). The French can't send all of the Muslim immigrants into the U.K. because they do not want them. With Brexit, the U.K. is not required to take in everyone from other EU countries.

Ehm, you were talking about defending the border IIRC, so it is a logical assumption that you mean defending it from invading armies; immigrants (illegal or not) rarely redraw the borders of the countries they move to (Alexander the Great is the exception, not the rule).

If you read the article I linked to it explains why Brexit may be the cause of MORE immigration to the UK, instead of reducing it.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/immigrati...=true&r=UK

Maybe the French politicians will decide that they wanna spend less money on guarding the UK border.

Sorry for the miscommunication. When I say defend borders, I'm usually referring to immigration. Also, the article linked seems to talk a lot about legal / merit-based immigration which I am all for. As for the last point, the U.K. pays France millions of dollars for border defense.
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#24
(11-19-2018, 04:14 AM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-19-2018, 01:10 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 09:44 PM)Nombre Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:46 AM)BoringApe Wrote:  
(11-18-2018, 04:40 AM)Nombre Wrote:  What about the U.K. defending their own borders?

Well, I live in NL and we aren't planning an invasion of the UK. I can also vouch for the people from Belgium (all 6 million of them), they will never invade the UK. France is too arrogant to invade the UK; French people think its a shithole.

So all you need to worry about is the Germans. That means you don't need to defend the UK's borders, but the Dutch border to the east.

Or do you think the Troubles will start again? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre...16946.html

That potential problem is caused by Brexit, not solved by it.

What I meant was borders in terms of immigration, not military defense (which I think is still necessary). The French can't send all of the Muslim immigrants into the U.K. because they do not want them. With Brexit, the U.K. is not required to take in everyone from other EU countries.

Ehm, you were talking about defending the border IIRC, so it is a logical assumption that you mean defending it from invading armies; immigrants (illegal or not) rarely redraw the borders of the countries they move to (Alexander the Great is the exception, not the rule).

If you read the article I linked to it explains why Brexit may be the cause of MORE immigration to the UK, instead of reducing it.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/immigrati...=true&r=UK

Maybe the French politicians will decide that they wanna spend less money on guarding the UK border.

Sorry for the miscommunication. When I say defend borders, I'm usually referring to immigration. Also, the article linked seems to talk a lot about legal / merit-based immigration which I am all for. As for the last point, the U.K. pays France millions of dollars for border defense.

So you are "all for" legal immigration? But you also wrote: "The EU's weak immigration law prevents the U.K. from denying anyone from an EU country to enter." (which isn't true of course).

Brexit means that the UK no longer can influence EU immigration law. There are hundreds of thousands people living illegally in the UK, and thats not because of the free movement of EU nationals (because those guys are legal immigrants and not illegal)... sigh

1.3 million people born in the UK live in other EU countries, according to 2017 estimates from the United Nations.
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